Comments on: A9.com – Amazon’s Trojan Horse http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/ Writings about more than just Macs, by Kirk McElhearn Mon, 06 Feb 2012 22:24:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-106 Anonymous Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:46:41 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-106 I have been using A9 and I have been enjoying it quite a bit. I mainly use it for research purposes. The history is very useful and I have employed it numerous time already. I can understand your apprehension regarding entering too "personal" of information. For example, if I was going to be looking up some personal health information or if I was to be looking up Thai massage parlors, I would just make sure to use the standard Google search engine. No need for Amazon to start recommending stuff to me based on that! All in all, I think A9 is a great tool. I have been using A9 and I have been enjoying it quite a bit. I mainly use it for research purposes. The history is very useful and I have employed it numerous time already.

I can understand your apprehension regarding entering too "personal" of information. For example, if I was going to be looking up some personal health information or if I was to be looking up Thai massage parlors, I would just make sure to use the standard Google search engine. No need for Amazon to start recommending stuff to me based on that!

All in all, I think A9 is a great tool.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-93 Anonymous Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:15:26 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-93 <p>Fair enough - I guess for the very uneducated Netizen, this info may be helpful. However, I'd still have written about a9 as an example of something that already exists everywhere on the net, rather than as a new and dangerous threat to privacy. </p> <p> And about the local bookstore comment - well yes, of course I meant walking in, asking if they have a title for you to peruse, and pay cash if you buy it. This method is 100% anonymous and patriot act proof! Like I said, anytime you use a credit card anywhere - Internet or not - you're buying patterns can be tracked - which has been the case for decades. </p> Fair enough – I guess for the very uneducated Netizen, this info may be
helpful. However, I’d still have written about a9 as an example of something
that already exists everywhere on the net, rather than as a new and
dangerous threat to privacy.

And about the local bookstore comment – well yes, of course I meant walking
in, asking if they have a title for you to peruse, and pay cash if you buy it.
This method is 100% anonymous and patriot act proof! Like I said, anytime
you use a credit card anywhere – Internet or not – you’re buying patterns can
be tracked – which has been the case for decades.

]]> By: Kirk http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-91 Kirk Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:53:15 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-91 Yes, I have read Database Nation. Very interesting read. Re going to the local bookstore... Unfortunately, in the US, the Patriot Act can force booksellers to tell law enforcement agencies what books you've bought... Unless, of course, you do it anonymously... Yes, I have read Database Nation. Very interesting read.

Re going to the local bookstore… Unfortunately, in the US, the Patriot Act can
force booksellers to tell law enforcement agencies what books you’ve
bought… Unless, of course, you do it anonymously…

]]> By: Kirk http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-90 Kirk Sat, 09 Oct 2004 12:51:32 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-90 Amazon is not "hiding" anything, but unless you read the fine print, you won't be aware of how they are linking your search history to your purchase history. Face it: you and me know what they're doing; it's obvious. I don't think the average Internet user knows, or even understands. Amazon is not "hiding" anything, but unless you read the fine print, you won’t
be aware of how they are linking your search history to your purchase history.
Face it: you and me know what they’re doing; it’s obvious. I don’t think the
average Internet user knows, or even understands.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-89 Anonymous Sat, 09 Oct 2004 02:48:29 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-89 <p>I'm saying "Trojan Horse," is a pretty bad analogy - malware, original greek-style, metaphorically, or otherwise, because Amazon isn't hiding anything! As you said in your article, they tell you they are doing this. You can be similarly tracked on any website that uses cookies, and if you've logged in, then the site can link the activity with your account (as you've probably found out from running your site on Geeklog). At least Amazon is telling you about it! </p> <p>This type of web technology is not at all new (relatively speaking) nor is it terribly unique, but your article seems to paint it as a ominous watermark in the destruction of our privacy.</p> I’m saying “Trojan Horse,” is a pretty bad analogy – malware, original
greek-style, metaphorically, or otherwise, because Amazon isn’t hiding
anything! As you said in your article, they tell you they are doing this. You
can be similarly tracked on any website that uses cookies, and if you’ve
logged in, then the site can link the activity with your account (as you’ve
probably found out from running your site on Geeklog). At least Amazon is
telling you about it!

This type of web technology is not at all new (relatively speaking) nor is it
terribly unique, but your article seems to paint it as a ominous watermark in
the destruction of our privacy.

]]> By: Kirk http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-88 Kirk Sat, 09 Oct 2004 00:45:57 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-88 Trojan Horse, as in a gift from the Greeks that hides something within... I certainly didn't mean it in the malware sense. Allow me a bit of poetic license, perhaps? Trojan Horse, as in a gift from the Greeks that hides something within… I
certainly didn’t mean it in the malware sense.

Allow me a bit of poetic license, perhaps?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-87 Anonymous Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:56:20 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-87 Bugging your Internet usage? Gimme a break! (sorry John Stossel). You use their service voluntarily! That's like saying your friends are bugging your conversations when you talk to them. Bugging your Internet usage? Gimme a break! (sorry John Stossel). You use
their service voluntarily! That’s like saying your friends are bugging your
conversations when you talk to them.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-86 Anonymous Fri, 08 Oct 2004 23:47:26 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-86 <p>This is a pretty paltry worry compared to the other more commonplace and much more invasive tracking technologies that already exist in our consumer culture. If you're <b>that</b> worried about keeping your interests private, then I assume you don't use credit cards or have an ATM card, because if you do, you're wasting your clicks and keystrokes worrying about a9. Ever read <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001053/ qid=1097265970/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4160714-0382330? v=glance&s=books&n=507846">"Database Nation"? </a>(sorry - I couldn't resist...). Here's an easy low-tech way to ease your malaise - go visit and support a local bookstore! It's 100% analog, and 100% anonymous!</p> <p>In any case, if you are going to go to all the effort to write an article like that, at least get your terminology right - even if everything you say is true, a9 has nothing to do with a so-called "Trojan Horse" (look it up). If it did, then every website that uses cookies would also be a Trojan Horse, and so, oh no! wait! That includes this one! I'm getting out of here now!</p> This is a pretty paltry worry compared to the other more commonplace
and
much more invasive tracking technologies that already exist in our consumer
culture. If you’re that worried about keeping your interests private,
then I
assume you don’t use credit cards or have an ATM card, because if you do,
you’re wasting your clicks and keystrokes worrying about a9. Ever read “Database Nation”? (sorry – I couldn’t
resist…). Here’s an easy low-tech way to ease your malaise – go visit and
support a local
bookstore! It’s 100% analog, and 100% anonymous!

In any case, if you are going to go to all the effort to write an
article like that, at
least get your terminology right – even if everything you say is true, a9 has
nothing to do with a so-called “Trojan Horse” (look it up). If it did, then
every website that uses cookies would also be a Trojan Horse, and so, oh no!
wait! That includes this one! I’m getting out of here now!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-58 Anonymous Sat, 02 Oct 2004 06:32:06 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-58 Here's another solution: Don't use it. Try this instead (I don't think many people know about this yet, but in my usage it's outperformed Google - with no ads to boot): http://conk.com Here’s another solution: Don’t use it. Try this instead (I don’t think many people know about this yet, but in my usage it’s outperformed Google – with no ads to boot): http://conk.com

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-56 Anonymous Fri, 01 Oct 2004 02:09:27 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-56 i appreciate that you have security concerns regarding personal information and data mining by A9.com, but imho the site is designed for individualized searches with a search history function built into it. complaining about this is akin to complaining that the plane you got on left the ground and landed somewhere else. for somebody who is doing research (work, school, news, etc) this is a very valuable tool that allows you to track your search history. re: your issues with security and privacy there are two very simple tricks to use to protect yourself: 1-don't use it, it is based on google technology, so use google. 2-disable cookies, or always clear your cookies. dsk i appreciate that you have security concerns regarding personal information and data mining by A9.com, but imho the site is designed for individualized searches with a search history function built into it. complaining about this is akin to complaining that the plane you got on left the ground and landed somewhere else. for somebody who is doing research (work, school, news, etc) this is a very valuable tool that allows you to track your search history.
re: your issues with security and privacy there are two very simple tricks to use to protect yourself:
1-don’t use it, it is based on google technology, so use google.
2-disable cookies, or always clear your cookies.

dsk

]]> By: Kirk http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-53 Kirk Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:27:46 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-53 You need to sign out when you get to Amazon's site - at the top, where it says Hello to your, click the If you're not XXX, click here link. You need to sign out when you get to Amazon’s site – at the top, where it
says Hello to your, click the If you’re not XXX, click here link.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-50 Anonymous Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:45:48 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-50 You say "Another solution is to create a new Amazon account with a fake name and e-mail address. You don't need to enter credit card information before purchasing, so you can do this easily. When using a9, think of signing in under this bogus account, then, when you want to use Amazon to purchase items or get personal recommendations, sign in to your real account." But when I created a new name for aol account and signed on, Amazon immediately greeted me by my real name. I take it you have to get a new computer--a new email account isn't enough. You say "Another solution is to create a new Amazon account with a fake name and e-mail address. You don’t need to enter credit card information before purchasing, so you can do this easily. When using a9, think of signing in under this bogus account, then, when you want to use Amazon to purchase items or get personal recommendations, sign in to your real account." But when I created a new name for aol account and signed on, Amazon immediately greeted me by my real name. I take it you have to get a new computer–a new email account isn’t enough.

]]> By: Kirk http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-41 Kirk Tue, 28 Sep 2004 10:40:19 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-41 Nick, What troubles me is the convergance of store searches and web searches. Sure, I want Amazon to offer me the books I want, and the recommendations (based not on my searches, but on my past purchase) are often useful. The idea of a store using web searches to recommend items is irksome. People search for many things on the web; they generally only search for books, CDs, DVDs, etc. on Amazon. The fact that Amazon is indexing your searches in order to recommend things remains disturbing, since your searches may be for things for which you don't want recommendations. On Amazon's end, I find that this technique is not necessarily useful. I do web searches often when writing to find out how specific terminology is used. (I do a fair amount of writing for corporate customers, and check up on obscure terms be seeing which terms get more hits.) I really don't want Amazon recommending books to me on these areas, as it will be a waste of my time and theirs. As for this site, registration is a convenience, not a requirement. It is provided with Geeklog, the software that runs the site, as a way of building community. If you want to register, your comments will appear under your name. Other than that, I'm not using the other functions available (sending stories by e- mail, etc.). Nick,

What troubles me is the convergance of store searches and web searches.
Sure, I want Amazon to offer me the books I want, and the recommendations
(based not on my searches, but on my past purchase) are often useful.

The idea of a store using web searches to recommend items is irksome.
People search for many things on the web; they generally only search for
books, CDs, DVDs, etc. on Amazon. The fact that Amazon is indexing your
searches in order to recommend things remains disturbing, since your
searches may be for things for which you don’t want recommendations.

On Amazon’s end, I find that this technique is not necessarily useful. I do web
searches often when writing to find out how specific terminology is used. (I
do a fair amount of writing for corporate customers, and check up on obscure
terms be seeing which terms get more hits.) I really don’t want Amazon
recommending books to me on these areas, as it will be a waste of my time
and theirs.

As for this site, registration is a convenience, not a requirement. It is provided
with Geeklog, the software that runs the site, as a way of building community.
If you want to register, your comments will appear under your name. Other
than that, I’m not using the other functions available (sending stories by e-
mail, etc.).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.mcelhearn.com/2004/09/27/a9com-amazons-trojan-horse/#comment-38 Anonymous Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:37:34 +0000 http://www.mcelhearn.com/wordpress/?p=39#comment-38 Why are you troubled by this? Amazon already uses cookies and onsite-searches to make recommendations on future purchases. Now it's just broadening it for generic web searches. It should make their CD recommendations a lot better. Your employers / insurers can't judge you by your searches, any more than they can judge you by your Amazon wishlist, the mail you receive, or the places you shop (and if they already do this, A9 won't be changing anything). Google is said to be moving in this direction, as well, with personalized searches (so searching for "pizza" finds something near your area code, and searching for "keyboard" gives different results for musicians vs. techs). You can accept the mild privacy risks and reap the benefits, or stick with the luddite crowd that's still "very disturbed" about the potential for hackers getting them fired. Nick PS I'd have given more credence to your viewpoint if you didn't, yourself, solicit registration to Kirkville. What if hackers break into Kirkville and share these comments with my boss??? Paranoid, maybe, but don't warn readers about far-fetched risks from Amazon and then ask them to do the same thing for your site. Why are you troubled by this? Amazon already uses cookies and onsite-searches to make recommendations on future purchases. Now it’s just broadening it for generic web searches. It should make their CD recommendations a lot better.

Your employers / insurers can’t judge you by your searches, any more than they can judge you by your Amazon wishlist, the mail you receive, or the places you shop (and if they already do this, A9 won’t be changing anything).

Google is said to be moving in this direction, as well, with personalized searches (so searching for "pizza" finds something near your area code, and searching for "keyboard" gives different results for musicians vs. techs).

You can accept the mild privacy risks and reap the benefits, or stick with the luddite crowd that’s still "very disturbed" about the potential for hackers getting them fired.

Nick

PS I’d have given more credence to your viewpoint if you didn’t, yourself, solicit registration to Kirkville. What if hackers break into Kirkville and share these comments with my boss??? Paranoid, maybe, but don’t warn readers about far-fetched risks from Amazon and then ask them to do the same thing for your site.

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