This file contains data from my dissertation, Writing Conversation: An Analysis of Speech Events in E-mail Mailing Lists
Message 1
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:45:25 +0100
From: "S.R.Gorlin" <srg3@UKC.AC.UK>
Subject: Russian Financial Language
I'm writing a MA on the problems of translating financial language into
and out of Russian.
Does anyone know the difference between "predsedatel" "prezident", and
"ispolnitelny direktor"? I suspect that "prezident" is like a CEO and
"predsedatel" is like a British chairman but I'm not sure.
Secondly how would one translate "board of directors" and "governors"
into Russian?
Finally, I found the expressions "biznes primeneniye" and "marketingovy
plan" in "finansovye izvestiye" and wanted to know if these were
established terms in Russian or mere neologisms.
Hope someone out there can help.
Serge Gorlin
------------------------------
Message 2
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:31:37 -0400
From: "Sergei N. Tsivunin" <at329@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Dear Sir,
On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, S.R.Gorlin wrote:
> Does anyone know the difference between "predsedatel"
> "prezident", and "ispolnitelny direktor"? I suspect that
> "prezident" is like a CEO and "predsedatel" is like a British
> chairman but I'm not sure.
"chairman", "president" and "managing/executive director" (1); "chairman",
"chairman and CEO" ("prezident i general'nyj direktor"), "executive
director" ("direktor-ispolnitel'") (2).
Also, read in Russian the explanation of the notions of "direktor" and
"pravlenie akcionernogo obshhestva" (3) which I have attached hereto as a
UUencoded ZIP file containing 3 TIFF 5.0 (compressed) files. I took the
relevant 3 pages from (3), scanned them, and would have run them through
OCR and saved as a standard Russian Windows text file, had it not been for
a schematic representation of a typical structure of a corporation, which
I reckoned might be useful to you.
Finally, refer yourself to (4) or a similar legislative act for less
concise, but authoritative explanations. Tell me if you need a full text
of any such Russian legislative acts, and I could scan them for you in the
similar fashion.
> Secondly how would one translate "board of directors" and
> "governors" into Russian?
"sovet direktorov" and "sovet upravljajushhikh" (5).
Sources:
1. Russian-English Foreign Trade and Foreign Economic
Dictionary, ed. by IF Zhdanova, Russkij jazyk, Moscow, 1991.
2. KS Gavrichina, MA Sazonov, IN Gavrichina, Dictionnaire
commercial et financier: francais-anglais-russe, Vikra, Moscou,
1993.
3. MA Baskakova, Tolkovyj juridicheskij slovar' biznesmena
(anglo-russkij, russko-anglijskij), 5-e izd., s izm. i dop.,
Juridicheskaja firma "Kontrakt", Moskva, 1994.
4. Polozhenie ob akcionernykh obshhestvakh, utverzhdjonnoe
postanovl. SM RSFSR ot 25.12.90 No.601 (s izm. i dop. ot
15.04.92 No 235).
5. IF Zhdanova, EhL Vartumjan. Anglo-russkij ehkonomicheskij
slovar', Russkij jazyk, Moscow, 1995.
> Finally, I found the expressions "biznes primeneniye" and
> "marketingovy plan" in "finansovye izvestiye" and wanted to
> know if these were established terms in Russian or mere
> neologisms.
No, in my opinion, these are but barbarisms and completely
unnecessary anglicisms offensive to any true Russian. In the
opinion of (2) and (5), "business application" is "ispol'zovanie v
kommercheskikh celjakh" and "marketing plan" is "plan sbyta".
In fact, I am only guessing what they mean by "biznes primeneniye"
without the benefit of a context: can you tell me which issue,
page and article of "Finansovye izvestija" this appears in? I shall
look it up in our office's library, which receives FI from Moscow,
or in the electronic edition on the WWW.
My respectful submission is that one ought to be very careful in relying
upon FI for proper Russian terminology: it is a publication with elitist
delusions, just like "Kommersant-Daily", who use glaring anglicisms on
purpose to make their readership from amongst the new business elite feel
apart from and above the proles
Oddly enough, Izvestia (where FI appears as a business supplement) has
always been my favourite Russian daily for their mostly impeccable style
and grammar, whilst the FT has been for me a similar source of good
English. Somehow both of these most respected and refined publications got
together and produced an ugly brat. My suggestion for any professional
English-Russian translator in the UK is to apply to both or either of
these publications and offer his services to translate their articles.
I would also suggest to such a UK translator to offer his services to BA:
I use their services for travel between Moscow and London and St
Petersburg and London quite often, and you should see their menu in
Russian! I have just taken a BA flight from Istanbul to London, and a
Turkish businessman sitting next to me commented that their menu in
Turkish was done very well.
Yours sincerely,
SN Tsivunin
YmVnaW4gNjQ0IEFPLlpJUA0KTTQkTCMhITBgYEBgKGAhUSZdUiE6Ki09P1xg
NCNgIiVTIVBgLGBgYGA5JkVSOTZNVDtXKE49JkVGVSdRWw0KTVchVTU+Plhb
Pl87PlxeNFpQNyIpJElBOEo1IztKQVFKJTo1LF0iQSVKRCpdTUhIOk01Sisv
[960 k cut]
__________________
Message 3
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:19:08 +0200
From: Victor Sokovin <sokovin@SCI.KUN.NL>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
SN Tsivunin wrote:
> Also, read in Russian the explanation of the notions of "direktor" and
> "pravlenie akcionernogo obshhestva" (3) which I have attached hereto as a
> UUencoded ZIP file containing 3 TIFF 5.0 (compressed) files. I took the
> relevant 3 pages from (3), scanned them, and would have run them through
> OCR and saved as a standard Russian Windows text file, had it not been for
> a schematic representation of a typical structure of a corporation, which
> I reckoned might be useful to you.
Thanks for your more than complete answer to this query. I always read your
competent comments on LANTRA with great pleasure but I would like to let
you know that sending 1Mb files to the list can produce a lot of problems for
some subscribers. I, for one, have a pretty reliable mail service which, over
the years, has been quite tolerant to my huge daily traffic. But even it was
about to start shattering after your last posting. If you want to send the
files of that size over the 'net, please just tell us about that so that the
interested fellow Lantrans can contact you in private and arrange the transfer
to their accounts. Thank you.
Victor Sokovin
------------------------------
Message 4
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:56:05 +0100
From: lena blondel <lblondel@GAMMA.AEI.CA>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
I have to download all messages before I can start deleting the ones I
don't want to read. To send 30 long messages that took over 7 minutes to
download seems a bit overly egocentric; why not first ask if someone wants
them, then send them by private e-mail. Some of us pay for the time we
spend on the Net.
Montreal Oasis Bed & Breakfast
------------------------------
Message 5
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:21:05 +0200
From: Paul Bray <paul.bray@MAILBOX.HOGIA.NET>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
My first reaction was not quite as civilized as yours Victor. Luckily I had
time to calm down while I was reading your reply!
Paul
>SN Tsivunin wrote:
>
>> Also, read in Russian the explanation of the notions of "direktor" and
>> "pravlenie akcionernogo obshhestva" (3) which I have attached hereto as a
>> UUencoded ZIP file containing 3 TIFF 5.0 (compressed) files. I took the
>> relevant 3 pages from (3), scanned them, and would have run them through
>> OCR and saved as a standard Russian Windows text file, had it not been for
>> a schematic representation of a typical structure of a corporation, which
>> I reckoned might be useful to you.
>
>Thanks for your more than complete answer to this query. I always read your
>competent comments on LANTRA with great pleasure but I would like to let
>you know that sending 1Mb files to the list can produce a lot of problems for
>some subscribers. I, for one, have a pretty reliable mail service which, over
>the years, has been quite tolerant to my huge daily traffic. But even it was
>about to start shattering after your last posting. If you want to send the
>files of that size over the 'net, please just tell us about that so that the
>interested fellow Lantrans can contact you in private and arrange the transfer
>to their accounts. Thank you.
>
>
>
>Victor Sokovin
------------------------------
Message 6
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:36:14 +0200
From: Gisselle Bertola <g_bertola@TEA.SATLINK.NET>
Subject: OH! NOOO!
What happened! I just got this 900k long Lantra Digest including a
disgusting file about something I don't care about!
Well this is just to let you guys know that I will have to set nomail for a
while because otherwise this surpass goes directly to my pocket (this is my
company's mail and I can't go beyond a limit of bandwidth). I don't know
what I will do without Lantra during these days!
Well, if anything interesting happens, please don't leave me aside.
Also my dear Lantrans, I want to thank all of you who answered to my personal
request a few days ago about my "independence". It is really great to know
that there's always someone out there who cares...Hey! you are awesome! I
will miss you these days.
See ya in ten days or so.
Gisselle
------------------------------
Message 7
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:32:46 +0200
From: MK <klawi@DEC.PLANET.FR>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language
Tsivunin,
poshol ty von !
Dimitri
------------------------------
Message 8
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:35:03 -0400
From: Valeria Opazo <vopazo@CHOAPA.CIC.USERENA.CL>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
Lena wrote:
>I have to download all messages before I can start deleting the ones I
>don't want to read. To send 30 long messages that took over 7 minutes to
>download seems a bit overly egocentric; why not first ask if someone wants
>them, then send them by private e-mail. Some of us pay for the time we
>spend on the Net.
Same here. Apart from the time it takes, I have to pay for it. I=B4ve been=
in=20
Lantra for about ten months now and I have received long resumes with=20
photograph and all, which I liked very much, a file containing music which I=
=20
felt sorry not to be able to listen to, a very long but interesting article=
=20
on aids (in English and Spanish).... I can say I have enjoyed all those=20
Ooops, sorry!!! But this one...=20
Saludos,
Valeria
------------------------------
Message 9
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 07:49:15 +0900
From: "Rene v. Rentzell" <rrr@TWICS.COM>
Subject: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
-- Rene <rrr@twics.com>
------------------------------
Message 10
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:27:29 +0100
From: "Michael f. Benis" <michaelb@PAVILION.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Before the lynching party goes out, how about asking ourselves whether
Sergei did it on purpose? He probably forgot to change the address field
from Lantra and didn't even realise it as he sent all the MBs streaming into
everyone's mailboxes...
FWIW
Michael B
------------------------------
Message 11
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:44:28 +0200
From: Paul Bray <paul.bray@MAILBOX.HOGIA.NET>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
I had thought about it but I can't afford it now!
Paul
>Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
>Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
>
------------------------------
Message 12
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:40:37 -0500
From: Paul Merriam <merriam@JC.NET>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
My take is that he was well-intentioned but careless or inattentive. I
don't see many previous postings by him. Let's not take action until he
does it again. The point's been made.
At 07:49 AM 7/24/96 +0900, you wrote:
>Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
>Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
>
>-- Rene <rrr@twics.com>
>
------------------------------
Message 13
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:47:35 +0100
From: Henry Whyte <hwhyte@TRANSLATION-PLUS.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
In message <199607231819.UAA04328@wn1.sci.kun.nl>, Victor Sokovin
<sokovin@SCI.KUN.NL> writes
>SN Tsivunin wrote:
>
>> Also, read in Russian the explanation of the notions of "direktor" and
>> "pravlenie akcionernogo obshhestva" (3) which I have attached hereto as a
>> UUencoded ZIP file containing 3 TIFF 5.0 (compressed) files. I took the
>> relevant 3 pages from (3), scanned them, and would have run them through
>> OCR and saved as a standard Russian Windows text file, had it not been for
>> a schematic representation of a typical structure of a corporation, which
>> I reckoned might be useful to you.
>
>Thanks for your more than complete answer to this query. I always read your
>competent comments on LANTRA with great pleasure but I would like to let
>you know that sending 1Mb files to the list can produce a lot of problems for
>some subscribers. I, for one, have a pretty reliable mail service which, over
>the years, has been quite tolerant to my huge daily traffic. But even it was
>about to start shattering after your last posting. If you want to send the
>files of that size over the 'net, please just tell us about that so that the
>interested fellow Lantrans can contact you in private and arrange the transfer
>to their accounts. Thank you.
>
>
>
>Victor Sokovin
One day soon, we'll all have hyperlinks on our Web pages to allow
fellow-lantrans to ftp:// files down in their own merry time, after we
post a notice here so advising them. Poka!
--
------------------------------
Message 14
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:17:23 +0800
From: Andrea Hoffmann <hoffmann@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
On purpose or not... if I send such a large file I have to be more careful.
Andrea :-(
At 12:27 AM 7/24/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Before the lynching party goes out, how about asking ourselves whether
>Sergei did it on purpose? He probably forgot to change the address field
>from Lantra and didn't even realise it as he sent all the MBs streaming into
>everyone's mailboxes...
>
>FWIW
>
>Michael B
>
------------------------------
Message 15
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:23:00 PDT
From: Jacques Clau <j.clau@ISLANDNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
>My first reaction was not quite as civilized as yours Victor. Luckily I had
>time to calm down while I was reading your reply!
>
>Paul
Same here. I am calm now. Yes. I understand the guy is dealing with FREENET.
Well, good for him if it's free to use the net. Not I. 9 minutes were wasted
to download the file. NINE MINUTES. So I hope Mister Sergei will use a
better judgement next time.
Got a brain, Sergei? Use it. I am calm.
Jacques
------------------------------
Message 16
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:34:55 GMT
From: "Werner W.J. Richter" <wwj.richter@LITONLINE.PING.AT>
Subject: BbbbbbbAaaaaaaNnnnnnnDdddddddddWwwwwwwwwIiiiiiiiiiTtttttttttttHhhhhhh
Sergei - your perfectly good advice was followed by
>This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
>while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
I just downloaded about 1 Megabyte of this stuff and I'm quite happy my
server isn't "mimaware". Are you out of your wits? Just hoping it wasn't a
virus confirmation or such shit.
broadminded but too-muched
WernR
Message 17
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:47:00 -0600
From: Nina Ivanichvili <sjkq81a@NILENET.COM>
Subject: Any suggestions for a MIME decoder?
Dear Lantrans:
I am using Airmail (Internet-in-a-Box product). I was unable to uudecode the
Russian file that was posted yesterday. Could you recommend a MIME decoder?
Many thanks,
Nina Ivanichvili
------------------------------
Message 18
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:55:46 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
In a message dated 96-07-23 18:51:30 EDT, you write:
<< Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
-- Rene
>>
Hey Rene! I, for one, enjoyed it! It was excellent, albeit a bit long. I'm
glad you're back though, I was tired of drawing the flames in your absence.
With you, DT and Josh all silent for the same period of time, and LANTRA
down for a while, I was bored silly.
Love,
Vladimir/Werner
------------------------------
Message 19
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:13:27 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Umolyayu LANTRA, No Tsivunin yavlaetsya khoroshim par'nim. Zatknis!
In a message dated 96-07-23 23:03:40 EDT, you write:
<< Sergei - your perfectly good advice was followed by
>This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
>while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
I just downloaded about 1 Megabyte of this stuff and I'm quite happy my
server isn't "mimaware". Are you out of your wits? Just hoping it wasn't a
virus confirmation or such shit.
broadminded but too-muched
W >>
and hundreds of others!
Poslishi endyushki!
While you guys were busy flaming poor Tsivunin, who at least meant well, I
had to read all of the flames. Downloading Sergej took me four minutes and
five of our current projects have already received a copy of his compendium.
I thought it was highly useful, and definately less time-consuming than a
trip to Kamkin's.
Sergej - thanks.
Vladimir/Werner, who just got to work on a new INS/Fraud contract, and used
the pieces immiediately.
P.S. Anymore coming I'll be happy to take directly if you don't own asbestos
jockey shorts.
------------------------------
Message 20
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:18:26 -0400
From: Robert Bononno <bononno@ACF2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
>Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
You're not dreaming. I managed to kill the download when I realized how
long the message was taking to transit the wires. I don't know what this
guy was thinking, but he sent a 1 MB file to the entire list! Banishment or
exile, which will it be?
------------------------------
Message 21
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:32:50 +0100
From: John Trollope <John.Trollope@TEAM17.COM>
Subject: Issue: Binaries - say no in the Lantra FAQ
There, my subject line hopefully says it all.
But Sergei's 1 mb binary (which I believe was so that cyrillic characters
could be read) could have been avoided.
In this case, if the FAQ also stated that he could send this file to those
who were interested, then none of this discussion would be going on.
Just my two ECU's worth
Cheers,
John
------------------------------
Message 22
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:52:49 +0800
From: Translators International <translat@IINET.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>>Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
>>Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
Material downloaded is interesting and I would like to thank Sergei for it.
IF all of you who flamed the author made an effort to read it, I am sure
you would appreciate the content.
I do not understand this "waste of band-width" business. If you can not
afford small fees then it might be something wrong with you (YOU =
collective whingers).
I think YOU spend more time and Bandwitdh on flaming Sergei.
Jerzy Brodzki
------------------------------
Message 23
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:09:40 +0000
From: finland <finland@ENTERPRISE.NET>
Subject: Listserv improvement possible?
Dear Lantrans. I am not going to flame the person who obviously made
the mistake...... I'm sure he'll get enough of that!
I am wondering if there is any way, that the list server can be set
up to accept and distribute only short messages. This way, if someone
sends long attachment files, they would be bounced back before
reaching everyone's mailboxes. I am not familiar with the ways the
software works, but even on simple news and mail-readers it is possible to
limit the size of the incoming messages. Saying that - I wonder why I
have not done anything about it myself! I will set my reader right
away!
Satu
------------------------------
Message 24
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:12:28 +0200
From: Carlos Mayor <golightly@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
Hi everyone.
Why exactly did I get 30 messages 30 of the following stuff:
M.(C5'G9@AI?0E!E-9(TM)+"(6'P(Z&=R;/_VU%K-?&RZW>H8DB!+.NT)@20M5R=
M')'.$1FC:`X"TU<G2BT*C('L!@<+16/(T$\JL2@0JW50_?#>*\9,"SBV;.L
MP#+;+G_B7M:U8N\FPA.W9_:(@9?)WFMMM0W$&O+)_0DP&&4-C<R`5=$$F!5C
Just curious, you know.
Carlos in Barcelona
------------------------------
Message 25
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:08:58 +0200
From: Victor Sokovin <sokovin@SCI.KUN.NL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Jerzy Brodzki wrote:
*> Material downloaded is interesting and I would like to thank Sergei for it.
*> IF all of you who flamed the author made an effort to read it, I am sure
*> you would appreciate the content.
And if you made an effort to read these messages you would notice that
some of them suggested the way to send such files without bothering people
who are not interested in the topic. This has nothing to do with the
appreciation of the content.
*> I do not understand this "waste of band-width" business. If you can not
*> afford small fees then it might be something wrong with you (YOU =
*> collective whingers).
*> I think YOU spend more time and Bandwitdh on flaming Sergei.
There's not only this question of fees, although in some countries they charge
much more for Internet services than you think. We all use different systems
which are configured in many different ways. Files of that size can damage
your system. For example, you can lose other files in your mail if the system
crashes. I think that it is written in every Internet FAQ.
Victor Sokovin
------------------------------
Message 26
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:30:25 +0100
From: "Michael f. Benis" <michaelb@PAVILION.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
At 09:17 24/07/96 +0800, you wrote:
>On purpose or not... if I send such a large file I have to be more careful.
>
>Andrea :-(
>
>At 12:27 AM 7/24/96 +0100, you wrote:
>>Before the lynching party goes out, how about asking ourselves whether
>>Sergei did it on purpose? He probably forgot to change the address field
>>from Lantra and didn't even realise it as he sent all the MBs streaming into
>>everyone's mailboxes...
>>
>>FWIW
>>
>>Michael B
>>
I'm glad to hear you never make a mistake and take other people's in such
good grace!
Michael
------------------------------
Message 27
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:14:14 GMT
From: "Werner W.J. Richter" <wwj.richter@LITONLINE.PING.AT>
Subject: BbbbbbbAaaaaaaNnnnnnnDdddddddddWwwwwwwwwIiiiiiiiiiTtttttttttttHhhhhhh
Vladowern -
Nice to hear that you could use the 1MB of stuff. I couldn't even *read* it.
There's *no* excuse for this, really. Because it pisses off everybody who's
hanging on here, and this list wouldn't be what it is but for the patience of
its members.
gerissen
WernR
------------------------------
Message 28
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 12:34:52 +0200
From: Kirk McElhearn <kirk@LENET.FR>
Subject: Attachments
To whom it may concern (list mom),
964k!!! That was the digest I had to download because of the dork who
sent qucktime movies of the opening ceremony of the olympics. Ok, it can
happen to anyone, i guess we should help all these newbies figure out how
it works. Anyway, I am sure he has gotten enough flames by now.
The point I would like to make, is that there has to be some way in the
LISTSERV software to make a limit on the size of files that are sent out.
There has to be a warning that can be set for oversize files. This
happens too often on this list. Please look into it.
BTW, how about some corrective action to those who do this?
Thanks,
Kirk
------------------------------
Message 29
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:47:04 +0100
From: "Michael f. Benis" <michaelb@PAVILION.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Attachments
> This happens too often on this list. Please look into it.
Once every couple of months.
>BTW, how about some corrective action to those who do this?
What would you suggest?
What about people wasting bandwidth with flames all objecting to the same
thing or reiterating the same proposal?
Its a shame to see so many of us regularly go rabid with such alacrity
Michael Benis
------------------------------
Message 30
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:16:07 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: Umolyayu LANTRA (Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!)
Vladmir/Werner wrote:
>While you guys were busy flaming poor Tsivunin, who at least meant well, I
>had to read all of the flames. Downloading Sergej took me four minutes and
>five of our current projects have already received a copy of his compendium.
> I thought it was highly useful, and definately less time-consuming than a
>trip to Kamkin's.
The point here is not the numnber of messages (let's face it - none of would
still be on Lantra if we really minded wading through 60 or 70 messages a
day), but the sheer size of what Sergei sent. To date, the flames total 47k,
one twentieth of that single file. For those who have slow modems, slow or
expensive servers or un-dedicated phone lines, that is a hell of a lot.
Gisselle has already said that she'll have to go no-mail for a while as a
result of what happened. I normally tend to be sympathetic towards the
accidental bandwidth bandits, but on this occasion I'm right behind Rene and
the Righteous Ones. There have been enough complaints about bandwidth abuse
here for people to be a bit more careful with such enormous files.
I also think that it is now up to Sergei to tell us what went wrong, or, if
he feels like it, to justify sending the file to the entire list. In the
past, various people have been flamed for much more minor demeanours -
Carlos 60k, Josh 30k & 24k, etc, and on all occasions they've been quick to
come back on line to apologise and explain the mistake or to give reasons
why the message in question was relevant. Over to you, Sergei.
Tim N.
------------------------------
Message 31
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:07:05 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: HELP
Good morning LANTRANS!
Anyone know where to find the complete text of the current Russian and recent
Soviet UK and UPK (Criminal Code and Code of Criminal Procedure) on line?
English or Russian would be great, and if you have them, I'lll be happy to
have them direct at
antiquariu@aol.com
Thanks,
Vladimir/Werner
------------------------------
Message 32
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:11:38 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
In a message dated 96-07-24 06:41:34 EDT, you write:
<< Material downloaded is interesting and I would like to thank Sergei for
it.
IF all of you who flamed the author made an effort to read it, I am sure
you would appreciate the content.
I do not understand this "waste of band-width" business. If you can not
afford small fees then it might be something wrong with you (YOU =
collective whingers).
I think YOU spend more time and Bandwitdh on flaming Sergei.
Jerzy Brodzki
ALS, Inc. concurs with Jerzy. And I must smirkingly note that even the most
expensive server only costs pennies at the rate some of you claim to get
paid.
Vladimir/Werner
chucklingly putting on his asbestos skivvies. . .
------------------------------
Message 33
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:13:52 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
In a message dated 96-07-24 06:51:05 EDT, you write:
<< Just curious, you know.
Carlos in Barcelona
>>
Ask Robert - it looks Basque to me <lol>
Werner/Vladimir
------------------------------
Message 34
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:23:35 +0900
From: "Rene v. Rentzell" <rrr@TWICS.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
>Hi everyone.
>
>Why exactly did I get 30 messages 30 of the following stuff:
>M.(C5'G9@AI?0E!E-9(TM)+"(6'P(Z&=R;/_VU%K-?&RZW>H8DB!+.NT)@20M5R=
>MPPSZ>F0>Y;A'5&J7(G*A_@.PNO,S%->);RS*18R7R7:(-`U"Z=E29F%AO5H?
>
>Just curious, you know.
>Carlos in Barcelona
Beats me too, but according to Jerzy, you should be *grateful*
for it...
-- Rene <rrr@twics.com>
------------------------------
Message 35
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:23:33 +0900
From: "Rene v. Rentzell" <rrr@TWICS.COM>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>I think YOU spend more time and Bandwitdh on flaming Sergei.
>
>Jerzy Brodzki
Jerzy, I think you'll have to see a *lot* more flaming before
you get close to the 1 MB that Sergei treated all 800 (less a few
who were prompted to leave by it) of us.
Sending 1 MB files to *everybody* on a busy mailing list is...
<deep breath, looking for a polite word>... inconsiderate.
-- Rene
------------------------------
Message 36
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:11:00 EDT
From: Josh Wallace <jwallace@GM.GAMEMASTER.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
I'm not silent. I'm just thinking.
> With you, DT and Josh all silent for the same period of time, and LANTRA
>down for a while, I was bored silly.
>
>Love,
>
>Vladimir/Werne
>
Josh Wallace
------------------------------
Message 37
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:46:07 +0200
From: Margaret Marks <fp150@FIM.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Of course Sergei did it on purpose. Why else did he give it the title
'Long file'? Anyway, I vote for lynching him whether it was
deliberate or not. This should be an offence of strict liability.
>
>Before the lynching party goes out, how about asking ourselves whether
>Sergei did it on purpose? He probably forgot to change the address field
>from Lantra and didn't even realise it as he sent all the MBs streaming into
>everyone's mailboxes...
>
>FWIW
>
>Michael B
>
>
--
Margaret Marks, Fuerth / Bavaria
------------------------------
Message 38
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:49:33 +0200
From: Margaret Marks <fp150@FIM.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>
Subject: Re: Russian Financial Language --- long files!!!
Well, I'm on a Freenet too, and it warned me that if I didn't reduce
the size of my mailbox my other mail would get chucked out.
Jacques Clau wrote:
>Same here. I am calm now. Yes. I understand the guy is dealing with FREENET.
>Well, good for him if it's free to use the net. Not I. 9 minutes were wasted
>to download the file. NINE MINUTES. So I hope Mister Sergei will use a
>better judgement next time.
>
>Got a brain, Sergei? Use it. I am calm.
>
--
Margaret Marks, Fuerth / Bavaria
------------------------------
Message 39
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:56:13 +0200
From: Margaret Marks <fp150@FIM.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Maybe we could connect him to Daniel Toledano in an endless loop.
Robert Bononno wrote:
> Banishment or
>exile, which will it be?
--
Margaret Marks, Fuerth / Bavaria
fp150@fim.uni-erlangen.de
------------------------------
Message 40
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:58:55 +0200
From: Victor Sokovin <sokovin@SCI.KUN.NL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Margaret Marks wrote:
*> Of course Sergei did it on purpose. Why else did he give it the title
*> 'Long file'? Anyway, I vote for lynching him whether it was
*> deliberate or not. This should be an offence of strict liability.
Margaret, I was the one who added these words ('Long file') to the original
title in order to warn those who hadn't download the thing yet. So it's up
to Sergei to tell us whether it was on purpose or not...
Victor
------------------------------
Message 41
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:05:26 +0400
From: Weitz Bernard <weitzber@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
At 12:18 AM 7/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>>Did I dream, or did we just got mailbombed by this twit?
>>Anybody for sending him the Gideons Bible as e-mail?
>
>You're not dreaming. I managed to kill the download when I realized how
>long the message was taking to transit the wires. I don't know what this
>guy was thinking, but he sent a 1 MB file to the entire list! Banishment or
>exile, which will it be?
>
Dear Robert,
You re completely right, a member of LANTRA that does not have any respect
for his companions has to be excluded from this list. There must be some
basic knowledge on what to do and what not to do with all the bandwidth. It
was realy disgusting! Why this person thinks that everybody on the list
needs all this Sh....t.
I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from its
participation.
I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a huge
worthless file of several MB.
Somehow the silence was nice, dont you think so?
Bernard
------------------------------
Message 42
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:07:25 +0400
From: Weitz Bernard <weitzber@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
At 12:27 AM 7/24/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Before the lynching party goes out, how about asking ourselves whether
>Sergei did it on purpose? He probably forgot to change the address field
>from Lantra and didn't even realise it as he sent all the MBs streaming into
>everyone's mailboxes...
>
>FWIW
Michael,
You are realy naive! and an eternal optimist, Bravo.
Bernardo
------------------------------
Message 43
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:19:31 +0200
From: Victor Sokovin <sokovin@SCI.KUN.NL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Bernard wrote:
*> You re completely right, a member of LANTRA that does not have any respect
*> for his companions has to be excluded from this list. There must be some
*> basic knowledge on what to do and what not to do with all the bandwidth. It
*> was realy disgusting! Why this person thinks that everybody on the list
*> needs all this Sh....t.
Dear Bernard,
I strongly disagree with you. If a person sent a huge file to the list, it
doesn't automatically mean that he 'does not have any respect for his
companions'. On the contrary, Mr. Tsivunin has been one of the most valuable
contributors to the list over the months, as least for the Russian speaking
Lantrans. Calling his contributions the way you called them is, IMO, the
sign of disrespect to the members of the list. Of course, the file was sent in
a wrong way, and I think I was the first to indicate it but calling for
exclusion from the list on the basis of one mistake is really too much!
*> I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
*> respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from its
*> participation.
*> I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a huge
*> worthless file of several MB.
*> Somehow the silence was nice, dont you think so?
E-mail terrorism is not the best solution.
Victor Sokovin
------------------------------
Message 44
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:12:00 EDT
From: Josh Wallace <jwallace@GM.GAMEMASTER.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Umolyayu LANTRA (Russian Financial Language --
>Carlos 60k, Josh 30k & 24k, etc...
My gosh, there's a record !
Josh Wallace
------------------------------
Message 45
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:33:54 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Robert & Margaret wrote:
>> Banishment or exile, which will it be?
>
>Maybe we could connect him to Daniel Toledano in an endless loop.
(to be sung in a low, malicious and conspiratorial tone)
Return to sender, dee dum dee dum
(repeat 800 times)
t.
------------------------------
Message 46
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:03:02 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
At 12:12 24/07/96 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi everyone.
>
>Why exactly did I get 30 messages 30 of the following stuff:
>
>M.(C5'G9@AI?0E!E-9(TM)+"(6'P(Z&=R;/_VU%K-?&RZW>H8DB!+.NT)@20M5R=
>M')'.$1FC:`X"TU<G2BT*C('L!@<+16/(T$\JL2@0JW50_?#>*\9,"SBV;.L
>MP#+;+G_B7M:U8N\FPA.W9_:(@9?)WFMMM0W$&O+)_0DP&&4-C<R`5=$$F!5C
>
>
>Just curious, you know.
A perfunctory look at the text will show a picture of the author (in dunce's
cap) on Line 7, characters 3-6 and a fairly apt comment on Line 11,
characters 40-44. Herein, I believe lies the key to the text; if we accept
that the initial M on each line is essentially superfluous, and add the
resulting character numbers (2+5+39+43=89) and the line numbers (7+11=18) we
get a clear reference to the year 1891, when Joseph Smith Duncan, an
engineer from Sioux City, Iowa, invented the Addressograph which printed
mailing addresses automatically, the first step on the slippery slope
towards mass spamming.
Tim N.
------------------------------
Message 47
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:52:44 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
Werner/Vladimir wrote:
>Ask Robert - it looks Basque to me <lol>
(referring to
M.(C5'G9@AI?0E!E-9(TM)+"(6'P(Z&=R;/_VU%K-?&RZW>H8DB!+.NT)@20M5R=M')'.$1FC:`X"TU
<G2BT*C('L!@<+16/(T$\JL2@0JW50_?#>*\9,"SBV;.LMP#+;+G_B7M:U8N\FPA.W9_:(@9?)W
FMMM0W$&O+)_0DP&&4-C<R`5=$$F!5CMY0*>C"V1!?$CJ<:_D#F`52(TM)MN5BD-/?":H(TM)N(TM)E<&K,<*
Sorry for the delay in replying to this one. I had to check round a few
etymological sources. I was also thrown by the archaic spelling (note the
FG.&$#MRC7H, only used now in remote valleys in Zuberoa - FG.&$#NRC6H
being now the most common form - and the V42`K+0*R4Y, wbich I presume is a
mis-spelling) and by the fact that at first sight it looked far too short to
be a Basque word. Some research, however, seems to back up your thesis.
Aitor Mendetxebarrikobaserrikogarai of the Institute for Basque Studies
informs me that this could probably be rendered into English as "Hello" and
that if this is a thirtieth of what you received, than this can hardly have
been anything more than a brief presentation to the list.
For a fuller understanding, however, I would suggest you send the full text
to the entire list, to see if anyone else can work it out.
Tim (Robert) N.
------------------------------
Message 48
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:16:41 +0200
From: Carlos Mayor <golightly@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>Dear Robert,
>
>You re completely right, a member of LANTRA that does not have any respect
>for his companions has to be excluded from this list. There must be some
>basic knowledge on what to do and what not to do with all the bandwidth. It
>was realy disgusting! Why this person thinks that everybody on the list
>needs all this Sh....t.
Have you noticed you keyboard occasionally writes four little dots where
and "i" should be?
>I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
>respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from its
>participation.
>I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a huge
>worthless file of several MB.
>Somehow the silence was nice, dont you think so?
>
>Bernard
Bernard,
What the Robert did you eat for lunch? Count to ten, relax and put the
Tipp-Ex back where it belongs.
Carlos
------------------------------
Message 49
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:08:19 -0600
From: Philip Dale <pdale@SPIN.COM.MX>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>What the Robert did you eat for lunch? Count to ten, relax and put the
>Tipp-Ex back where it belongs.
Exactly. I pay for my net time out of my pocket with my money that comes
from my work and I don=B4t need to complain about what was probably a
nine-minute nightmare that became a half-hour screaming match.
BBBBAAAANNNNDDDDWWWWIIIIDDDDTTTTHHHH was wider on the aftershocks than the
initial quake.
If the original should have been done directly to interested recipients, so
should the mopping up, say I.
As in: drop this one, shall we?
Phil.
------------------------------
Message 50
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:29:34 +0200
From: Jo Ann Cahn <jcahn@WORLDNET.FR>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Thank you Tim.
or Robert.
A sense of humor is something that is sometimes sorely lacking on
Lantra.
Jo Ann
------------------------------
Message 51
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:59:26 +0200
From: Michael Schmidt <michas@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT>
Subject: to Bernard (was: ISSUE: Sergei)
Dear Bernard,
you wrote:
>I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
>respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from it=
s
>participation.
>I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a hu=
ge
>worthless file of several MB.
>Somehow the silence was nice, dont you think so?
It's a joke, right?? You just forgot the smiley's, right??
Now, Helge has been very patient with all of us for quiet a long time.=20
Thanks Helge!
Concerning your posting, Bernard, may I remind you that someone who
addressed the good Lantrans as Mrs. and Mr. wasn't straight bumped from t=
he
list? Big no no! Some people rather wrote to this person to explain a few
things about this list.=20
Most of us, me included, have inadvertedly sent something to this list by
accident at one time or the other.
Happens. And then you learn. Thanks to our "gatekeeper" in Japan (Tach Re=
ne,
nice to have you back!), most learn in a hurry. Good thing, too.
If Helge really would bump off everyone who accidently sent an attachment=
to
the list, or something like that, I believe Lantra would be a very quiet,
lonely place.
I like it just the way it is. Lively. Friendly. Helpful. F r i e n d l y.
Shalom
Mike
------------------------------
Message 52
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 18:17:15 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
In a message dated 96-07-24 13:20:18 EDT, you write:
<< Dear Bernard,
I strongly disagree with you. If a person sent a huge file to the list, it
doesn't automatically mean that he 'does not have any respect for his
companions'. On the contrary, Mr. Tsivunin has been one of the most valuable
contributors to the list over the months, as least for the Russian speaking
Lantrans. Calling his contributions the way you called them is, IMO, the
sign of disrespect to the members of the list. Of course, the file was sent
in
a wrong way, and I think I was the first to indicate it but calling for
exclusion from the list on the basis of one mistake is really too much!
>>
Hey Guys!
have we whined enough yet? Even if you got nothing out of Sergei's data
dump, I'm sure he has the message by now. I, fo one, agree with Victor that
Sergei has been extremely good, useful and insightful for Russian speakers on
LANTRA, and wish you guys would lay off. And if list exclusion were to be
the punishment for a one time blunder from a man who has always been good for
the list, at least as long as I've been here, I would vote with my feet as
well. Let's not be so sophomoric, and get back to translating.
Hang in there Sergei!
Vova
ALS, Inc.
------------------------------
Message 53
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 19:02:56 -0500
From: Gabe Bokor <gbokor@MHV.NET>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
>Why exactly did I get 30 messages 30 of the following stuff:
>
>M.(C5'G9@AI?0E!E-9(TM)+"(6'P(Z&=R;/_VU%K-?&RZW>H8DB!+.NT)@20M5R=
>M')'.$1FC:`X"TU<G2BT*C('L!@<+16/(T$\JL2@0JW50_?#>*\9,"SBV;.L
Actually it was 31/31 by my Eudora. It's UUENCODEd text, and if
you save it as one text file (which my Eudora does with just one
keystroke after having highlighted all 31 messages), cut it from
where it says "begin" and UUDECODE with the suitable utility,
you get a ZIP file, which unzips into three TIF files. These are
graphic files readable on both Macs and PCs (I have a Mac) and
are scanned copies from some book describing (in Russian) the
different terms used for corporate officers and other capitalist
terminology.
I'm sure Sergei did this by mistake, but, since I'm interested in
this new Russian terminology, I'm glad he did it... (please don't
cut off our heads).
Gabe
------------------------------
Message 54
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:39:22 GMT
From: "Karl M. Lubarsky" <anglotxt@PI.NET>
Subject: Re: Is it a plane? Is it a joke? Is it funny? (IS: Russian boredom)
On Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:03:02 +0200, you wrote:
>A perfunctory look at the text will show a picture of the author (in dunce's
>cap) on Line 7, characters 3-6 and a fairly apt comment on Line 11,
>characters 40-44. Herein, I believe lies the key to the text; if we accept
>that the initial M on each line is essentially superfluous, and add the
>resulting character numbers (2+5+39+43=89) and the line numbers (7+11=18) we
>get a clear reference to the year 1891, when Joseph Smith Duncan, an
>engineer from Sioux City, Iowa, invented the Addressograph which printed
>mailing addresses automatically, the first step on the slippery slope
>towards mass spamming.
>
>Tim N.
>
Absolutely bloody amazing! - I was totally perplexed, and admittedly it took me
a little longer, but after some serious thought and analysis I managed to
eliminate the superfluous lines and finally cracked the key character in line 11
(42 of course!), by then it was just before seven o'clock, well 18:59 to be
exact. When I finally twigged and saw the initial letters of Joseph Smith Duncan
staring me in the face I added up the numerical equivalents (J=10 + S=19 + D=4)
and got 33. Adding 1859 + 33 gave me 1892 - I was only one year out!
Now did we go to different schools together or what?
------------------------------
Message 55
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 22:39:08 -0400
From: Murray Gross <root@SEE.THE.ADDRESS.BELOW>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Translators International wrote:
> I do not understand this "waste of band-width" business. If you can not
> afford small fees then it might be something wrong with you (YOU =
> collective whingers).
> I think YOU spend more time and Bandwitdh on flaming Sergei.
>
> Jerzy Brodzki
I must take issue with the above, on behalf of those Lantran's who do
not, for example have T1 Internet connections. Mr. Tsivunin's good
intentions were obvious, but the road to Hell is paved with good
intentions. Megabyte attachments are simply major nuisances, particularly
on the flakey lines that some Lantran's must use, expensive for others,
annoying time wasters for yet others. This is particularly true when you
realize that there is no need for graphic images simply to transmit
cyrillic characters by e-mail.
We would all do better by complimenting Mr. Tsivunin's good intentions,
and requesting that in the future, he make his large offerings available
on request only.
Murray Gross
mgross@amanda.dorsai.org
------------------------------
Message 56
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 00:26:46 -0500
From: Paul Merriam <merriam@JC.NET>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
I'd agree with Bernard if Mr. Tsivunin did this repeatedly. But he appears
to be relatively new to the list and this appears to be the first time.
Give him a break!
At 07:19 PM 7/24/96 +0200, you wrote:
>Bernard wrote:
>
>*> You re completely right, a member of LANTRA that does not have any respect
>*> for his companions has to be excluded from this list. There must be some
>*> basic knowledge on what to do and what not to do with all the bandwidth. It
>*> was realy disgusting! Why this person thinks that everybody on the list
>*> needs all this Sh....t.
>
>Dear Bernard,
>
>I strongly disagree with you. If a person sent a huge file to the list, it
>doesn't automatically mean that he 'does not have any respect for his
>companions'. On the contrary, Mr. Tsivunin has been one of the most valuable
>contributors to the list over the months, as least for the Russian speaking
>Lantrans. Calling his contributions the way you called them is, IMO, the
>sign of disrespect to the members of the list. Of course, the file was sent in
>a wrong way, and I think I was the first to indicate it but calling for
>exclusion from the list on the basis of one mistake is really too much!
>
>*> I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
>*> respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from its
>*> participation.
>*> I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a huge
>*> worthless file of several MB.
>*> Somehow the silence was nice, dont you think so?
>
>E-mail terrorism is not the best solution.
>
>Victor Sokovin
>
>
Paul W. Merriam, Junction City, Kansas
merriam@jc.net
------------------------------
Message 57
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:59:15 +0200
From: Yuri Vorontsoff <jumanl@XS4ALL.NL>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>I'd agree with Bernard if Mr. Tsivunin did this repeatedly. But he appears
>to be relatively new to the list and this appears to be the first time.
>Give him a break!
Sergey is more than one year on Lantra and I am afraid that
you will persuade him to cancel his subscription. Please stop
complaining - we all understand what went wrong :)
Greetings.
Yuri E. Vorontsoff
------------------------------
Message 58
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:10:02 +0200
From: Kirk McElhearn <kirk@LENET.FR>
Subject: Russian criminal code
Vladimir wrote:
>Anyone know where to find the complete text of the current Russian and recent
>Soviet UK and UPK (Criminal Code and Code of Criminal Procedure) on line?
> English or Russian would be great, and if you have them, I'lll be happy to
>have them direct at
Ask Sergei :-)
(Just kidding! I knwo it is mean, but I couldn't resist.)
Kirk
------------------------------
Message 59
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 09:31:15 +0000
From: finland <finland@ENTERPRISE.NET>
Subject: Listserv improvemen possible?
Dear Lantrans. I am not going to flame the person who
obviously made the mistake...... I'm sure he'll get
enough of that!
I am wondering if there is any way, that the list server
can be set up to accept and distribute only short
messages. This way, if someone sends long attachment
files, they would be bounced back before reaching
everyone's mailboxes. I am not familiar with the ways
the software works, but even on simple news and
mail-readers it is possible to limit the size of the
incoming messages. Saying that - I wonder why I have not
done anything about it myself! I will set my reader
right away!
Satu
------------------------------
Message 60
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:46:00 EDT
From: Josh Wallace <jwallace@GM.GAMEMASTER.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
>>I'd agree with Bernard if Mr. Tsivunin did this repeatedly. But he appears
>>to be relatively new to the list and this appears to be the first time.
>>Give him a break!
>
>Sergey is more than one year on Lantra and I am afraid that
>you will persuade him to cancel his subscription. Please stop
>complaining - we all understand what went wrong :)
>
I agree. Leave this guy alone. It took a couple minutes extra (my cost, 2
cents) to download this material, I realized it was a mistake, I deleted it.
I don't want an apology. Find something else to complain about. Get a life!
Josh Wallace
------------------------------
Message 61
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 20:40:40 +0900
From: "Rene v. Rentzell" <rrr@TWICS.COM>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Josh:
>I agree. Leave this guy alone. It took a couple minutes extra (my cost, 2
>cents) to download this material, I realized it was a mistake, I deleted it.
Just for reference, on the dial-system I was on before (and to
which I still have to go back when this PPP system conks out), that
post would have taken an hour to download, and also would have exceeded
the disk limit, meaning all sorts of trouble.
The attitude "it's OK by me, so it's go to be OK for others" is quite
arrogant, Josh -- not what we would expect from a sensitive, caring
new ager.
Or are laying the groundwork for the next AIDS spam, perhaps?
-- Rene
------------------------------
Message 62
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 08:19:58 -0400
From: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Russian criminal code
In a message dated 96-07-25 05:09:25 EDT, you write:
<< Ask Sergei :-)
(Just kidding! I knwo it is mean, but I couldn't resist.)
Kirk
Kirk McElhearn >>
Okay Kirk - that's enough on Sergei, and I still need the Criminal Code and
the UPK.
Vova - expecting a 1 meg download so that he can get the frigging documents.
------------------------------
Message 63
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:19:51 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Bernard wrote:
>I sincerely think that Helge should take into consideration such lack of
>respect for all the members of this list and exclude this person from its
>participation.
>I propose that everybody sends to this guy (to his e-mail directly) a huge
>worthless file of several MB.
Yesterday I posted a message insinuating that everyone should return their
copy of the infamous file to Sergei. THis message was meant to be humorous
and I certainly did not expect anyone to act on it. However, having seen
postings like the above, I am beginning to realise that there are people who
are perfectly capable of entering into such pointless vendettas.
Having unencoded the files in question I now understand more fully how
Sergei made the mistake. It was a serious mistake and an act of negligence,
but it was clearly not intentional, and Sergei has not breached any list
conventions before.
On these occasions, I think flaming *does* have an important role to play -
it makes all of us that bit more aware of just how important it is to
respect the basic ruules and to be extremely careful in what we post. It
also helps those of us who were inconvenienced to vent our Net-rage. Having
said that, I think that's as far as it should go. Bombarding someone's
e-mail address for a once-off unintentional misdemeanour is petty,
vindictive and thoroughly pointless. Lists like Lantra function more or less
smoothly through responsibility, and -dare I use the word - constructive
anarchism, *not* through Lynch law.
My deepest concern at the moment is that Sergei has not come forward because
some asshole is clogging up his mailer with untreated sewerage (or sh...t,
as Bernard would call it).
Sergei, please come back, all is forgiven.
(For the record, the messages related to this question now total over 100k
and counting).
Tim N.
------------------------------
Message 64
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 04:07:18 EDT
From: Salvador Virgen <74174.2467@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Josh's silence
>I'm not silent. I'm just thinking.
It's my opinion that the first is almost a precondition for the second.
Salvador in Mexico
------------------------------
Message 65
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 10:20:59 GMT
From: "Werner W.J. Richter" <wwj.richter@LITONLINE.PING.AT>
Subject: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
To start the next 100k-load on poor Sergei... :-\
How about we all learn from this? Although it's hard (I sent my private reply
to Margaret to all of you yesterday, but luckily it was only 4 lines).
File transfers shouldn't be made to the list at all, we know this. So for
every file transfer, let's doublecheck that little switch in our heads if the
address is a private one. Like when you close the door of your fridge, you
know.
Ranting and raving has its benefits, Tim N. pointed them out to us. But we
sure have to draw a line between deliberate spamming of the DanLadino type
and mishaps due to inconsiderateness.
I don't need any apologies neither, Josh. But it still worries me that Sergei
hasn't been back to say anything.
no longer down no longer loaded
WernR
---------------------------
Message 66
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 06:52:00 EDT
From: Josh Wallace <jwallace@GM.GAMEMASTER.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: Josh's silence
>It's my opinion that the first is almost a precondition for the second.
>
>Salvador in Mexic
>
Often though I think with my mouth full and my ideas come out jumbled.
Josh Wallace
-----------------------
Message 67
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:58:51 +0200
From: Michael Rohrig <mfroehrig@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Very long unwelcome attachments (was: Attachments)
>
>What would you suggest?
Hi there,
When I noticed there was this long, long file (I won't flame, because I have
once sent a file of similar length to the whole list as some of you will
remember, I even was called an "asshole" (by *private* mail, naturally)), I
interrupted the reception, called my server and got the message deleted. I
don't know whether it's possible everywhere, but if you have the possibility
it may be worth a try the next time.
Saludos, Michael
---------------------------
Message 68
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 14:59:33 +0200
From: Michael Rohrig <mfroehrig@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
At 18:45 24.07.1996 +0200, you wrote:
><deep breath, looking for a polite word>... inconsiderate.
>-- Rene
(hear, hear!!!)
----------------------------
Message 69
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 1996 18:46:08 +0100
From: "S.R.Gorlin" <srg3@UKC.AC.UK>
Subject: Thanks re:Russian Financial Language
Thanks to Gila and Sergei for answering my query on Russian Financial
Language. I found the information you sent me most relevant and
interesting. Actually it took me until today to read the famous one
megabyte file as I didn't have access to a Tiff viewer. Meanwhile, I have
watched in disbelief the furore unfold over it.
Not being an expert on computers, I'm not in a position to judge whether
this was a mistake on Mr Tsivunin's part; but I would like to say what a
lot of effort was wasted in invective against him; it only takes two or
three people to make a point.
Anyway, lets hope I haven't stirred up another hornet's nest.
Regards
Serge Gorlin
PS You Lantrans certainly live up to your lively reputation.
---------------
Message 70
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:13:54 -0400
From: "Sergei N. Tsivunin" <at329@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Dear LANTRA members,
My sincere regrets for posting a message with a long attachment in
question to the entire list. May I assure you that this was done
inadvertently and was a genuine, albeit very unfortunate, error.
I meant, of course, to send this message only to Mr Gorlin, but that
afternoon was asked if I could go on an already planned business trip to
Russia a day earlier and sent the message in a hurry as part of outgoing
e-mail barely a couple of hours before I had to leave for the airport to
catch an evening flight out.
The reasons I have not surfaced until now and acknowledged my error are as
follows:
(a) I was away in St Petersburg until last night working on preparations
for the opening of McDonald's first restaurant in that city, and hardly
had any time to check with our Moscow office for e-mail;
(b) when in Russia (almost half my time), my private e-mail normally gets
forwarded from Toronto Free-Net to my Moscow AT&T mailbox. However, on
24-25 July, Toronto Free-Net was completely shut down, and nothing got
forwarded. (At the very end of this message is a verbatim message from
Toronto Free-Net to that effect: 103 words after a dotted line which you
can disregard, if you wish.) Although I would have missed the general
Lantra discussion of my error anyway, a number of private messages to me
would have alerted me to the fact that something terribly wrong happened.
Again, I arrived from London around 11 o'clock in the evening yesterday,
went to bed very late, got up at 10 to read my e-mail and am still
drinking my morning coffee as I am writing to you to humbly acknowledge my
error.
Kind regards,
SN Tsivunin
-----------------------------------------------------------
We apologise for the recent downtime of July 24-25.
The disk drive containing the home directories of all the users failed and
it was required to put another disk in place.
The users' home directories were restored from the most reliable backup,
and as a result, changes to files in user home directories (such as
saved/sent mail folders) may have been lost (between Monday evening and
Wednesday afternoon).
The system mailboxes (INBOX) were not affected by the disk failure,
although the forwarding was disabled for the duration of the outage, so
some irregularities may appear for those who have forwarded their e-mail
elsewhere.
------------------------------
Message 71
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 12:48:28 -0500
From: Paul Merriam <merriam@JC.NET>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
As far as I'm concerned, apology accepted. Welcome back.
At 12:13 PM 7/28/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear LANTRA members,
>
>My sincere regrets for posting a message with a long attachment in
>question to the entire list. ...
>
>Kind regards,
>
>SN Tsivunin
------------------------------
Message 72
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:20:11 -0400
From: Gilles Dignard <ag684@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Mime Decoder
Someone was looking for a Mime decoder.
There is something at: http://www.shareware.com/
Use "mime" as your search word.
Gilles Dignard
------------------------------
Message 73
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:51:50 -0400
From: Liudmilla Hirsch <hirsch@IS2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
To those of you who reeived Sergei's file:
Did any of you manage to convert the file to Wordperfect format?
Or to any other text-based format? If you did, can you please send me
directions on to how to look at the contents of the file or can you
actually forward to me the converted file. I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Liudmilla
------------------------------
Message 74
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:32:42 +0200
From: Carlos Mayor <golightly@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
Liudmilla wrote:
>To those of you who received Sergei's file:
Surely you mean "Hi everyone", don't you? ;-)
Carlos
------------------------------
Message 75
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 12:24:45 -0400
From: Liudmilla Hirsch <hirsch@IS2.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
Hello Everyone,
How are you?
I am truly sorry about that rude inquiry. I do apologize. I can always
blame it on Monday but I won't. I hope to get some replies though.
Sincerely,
Liudmilla
I also hope you will not kick me off the list.
On Mon, 29
Jul 1996, Carlos Mayor wrote:
> Liudmilla wrote:
>
> >To those of you who received Sergei's file:
>
>
> Surely you mean "Hi everyone", don't you? ;-)
>
>
> Carlos
>
------------------------------
Message 76
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 11:20:49 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: ISSUE: Sergei N. Tsivunin
Paul wrote:
>As far as I'm concerned, apology accepted. Welcome back.
Seconded.
Tim N.
------------------------------
Message 77
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 22:51:24 -0500
From: Paul Merriam <merriam@JC.NET>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
As far as I'm concerned, apology accepted.
At 12:24 PM 7/29/96 -0400, Liudmilla wrote:
>Hello Everyone,
>How are you?
>I am truly sorry about that rude inquiry. I do apologize. ...
Paul W. Merriam, Junction City, Kansas
------------------------------
Message 78
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:07:00 EDT
From: Salvador Virgen <74174.2467@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
Liudmilla wrote:
>I also hope you will not kick me off the list.
Never mind. Carlos in Barcelona is a nice chap, when you get to know him.
Salvador in Mexico
------------------------------
Message 79
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:33:08 +0200
From: Tim Nicholson <tnichols@SARENET.ES>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
>Liudmilla wrote:
>>I also hope you will not kick me off the list.
And Salvador wrote:
>Never mind. Carlos in Barcelona is a nice chap, when you get to know him.
Actually I think there's been a bit of confusion here.
Liudmilla started her original message with: "To those of you who received
Sergei's file:"... By saying that she should have started her message with
"Hi, everyone", Carlos was just making reference to the fact that *no-one*
had escaped receiving the file.
Tim N.
Professional Cross Referee
------------------------------
Message 80
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 05:30:20 +0900
From: "Rene v. Rentzell" <rrr@TWICS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
>Liudmilla started her original message with: "To those of you who received
>Sergei's file:"... By saying that she should have started her message with
>"Hi, everyone", Carlos was just making reference to the fact that *no-one*
>had escaped receiving the file.
>
>Tim N.
>Professional Cross Referee
Exactly. Repeat 100 times (I've done it at least 1 million times now):
"Sarcasm doesn't fly on a mailing list. Sarcasm doesn't fly..."
-- Rene <rrr@twics.com>
------------------------------
Message 81
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:24:01 GMT
From: Joern Loberg <jorn@RSVL.UNISYS.COM>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
At 05.30 96-07-30 +0900, you wrote:
>Exactly. Repeat 100 times (I've done it at least 1 million times now):
>"Sarcasm doesn't fly on a mailing list. Sarcasm doesn't fly..."
>
>
>-- Rene <rrr@twics.com>
Correct, and smiley faces are needed for the humour challenged!
Cheers
J=F8rn Loberg
Danish <=3D> English
------------------------------
Message 82
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:51:37 +0200
From: Carlos Mayor <golightly@REDESTB.ES>
Subject: Re: Sergei's Russian Finanacial Language File ...
>>Liudmilla wrote:
>>>I also hope you will not kick me off the list.
>
>And Salvador wrote:
>>Never mind. Carlos in Barcelona is a nice chap, when you get to know him.
>
>Actually I think there's been a bit of confusion here.
>
>Liudmilla started her original message with: "To those of you who received
>Sergei's file:"... By saying that she should have started her message with
>"Hi, everyone", Carlos was just making reference to the fact that *no-one*
>had escaped receiving the file.
>
>Tim N.
>Professional Cross Referee
Tienes una ciberbirra pagada por desfacer el entuerto.
Carlos